Hey Everyone,
I'm selling off my PC equipment and buying 2 new computers to switch over Mac. I'm new to Ableton and was wondering a couple of things as a newbie. Could I run into any problems using an iMac? I understand they aren't upgradeable (except the RAM). My concern is that I won't be able to upgrade the sound card, which it seems like most people here do. How will I output quality sound from the computer? Will I have to buy an external usb sound card? I also purchased a MacBook Pro laptop. Will the sound card be ok with that? I plan on buying a powered usb hub for all the various inputs.
Honestly, I don't really understand why I need a different sound card, if you don't mind, I'd love to hear any input about why I might upgrade.
And finally, can I buy a sound card that will allow me to input to my computers, and thus record into ableton, sound from external sources like guitars, etc.....
Set up will be:
2.6 GHZ MacBook Pro
2.8 GHZ iMac with 4 GB RAM
Thanks in advance for all the help!!
I'm selling off my PC equipment and buying 2 new computers to switch over Mac. I'm new to Ableton and was wondering a couple of things as a newbie. Could I run into any problems using an iMac? I understand they aren't upgradeable (except the RAM). My concern is that I won't be able to upgrade the sound card, which it seems like most people here do. How will I output quality sound from the computer? Will I have to buy an external usb sound card? I also purchased a MacBook Pro laptop. Will the sound card be ok with that? I plan on buying a powered usb hub for all the various inputs.
Honestly, I don't really understand why I need a different sound card, if you don't mind, I'd love to hear any input about why I might upgrade.
And finally, can I buy a sound card that will allow me to input to my computers, and thus record into ableton, sound from external sources like guitars, etc.....
Set up will be:
2.6 GHZ MacBook Pro
2.8 GHZ iMac with 4 GB RAM
Thanks in advance for all the help!!
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Re: New Apple Computers....suggestions.....
Wed, March 12, 2008 - 5:03 PMTheres nothing wrong with an imac besides the fact that (just like your macbook) it's not very future proof.
They're both computer music powerhouses for now though. And at least the next couple of years I would imagine.
Re: Sound card, you won't be able to get any kind of a pci card if thats what you were thinking. But you don't really NEED one of those either and there are VERY affordable firewire and usb2 options available.
I would highly recommend one of the echo audio-fire cards. I have a few friends that own and play out on them as well as I've owned 2 different echo cards within the past 10 years and their products are quality.
www.echoaudio.com/Products/.../index.php
You could get away with using this one for both of your computers if you wanted to. Just hot plug it into which ever one you feel like you need to use at that moment.
On the other hand the core audio cards that are built into macs in general are very good for output and you could easily get away with using them as long as you don't need to make any high quality recordings. But if you plan on doing everything internally then it can work out just fine.
There's been a few shows where i had to play out of the built in outs on my macbook pro and it sounded fine. Allthough there's a slightly noticable diff. Having a dedicated audio interface does make a big difference in overall sound quality and latency.
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Re: New Apple Computers....suggestions.....
Fri, March 14, 2008 - 4:13 AMCongratulations on the switch and welcome to a much better world of music production. I've seen PCs crash way too many times in live situations for them to be much better than paper weights.
I'll agree with Audiovoid - get yourself a firewire audio interface. I've been using the M-Audio Fire 410 (4 ins, 10 outs, 2 mic preamps) for 4+ years now and the thing has held up through the beating of studio and live performance work, even at burning man in the dust. I haven't used an Echo interface since the PCI Layla I had when I used to be on PC as well (I'm a die hard Mac supporter now) - their new line of firewire interfaces look really nice for portability though. I've used the m-audio to record guitars, sample instruments, all kinds of shit. The mic preamps aren't super amazing but they are decent. The internal Mac sound card is okay but as mentioned you'll have latency and quality issues and really should only be a backup - depending on your power quality and other things, you may even pick up noise floor of the computer operating if you use the internal sound. It also maxes out at 16 bit 44khz I believe. Not that your average listener can tell the difference (we live in a world of MP3s afterall).
As for USB hubs...they can be tricky. I use one for my Oxygen2 and Trigger Finger without too much trouble but if you wanted to use say an external USB mouse or something like that with the setup you'll run into problems with the hub deciding which one to listen to when passing information to the computer. One of the problems with only 2 USB ports on laptops. -
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Re: New Apple Computers....suggestions.....
Fri, March 14, 2008 - 4:15 AMforgot to mention - the Firewire 410 also has MIDI and SPDIF. Save you a USB MIDI port if you're sending out to synths/modules/etc.
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Re: New Apple Computers....suggestions.....
Fri, March 14, 2008 - 8:48 AMI've had a Firewire 410 for a while now too, second the recommendation. I also have a MOTU Ultralight. (I have more than one Mac, and use Logic as well as Live.)
If you can get a bluetooth mouse you can avoid the USB problem. Me, I've gotten used to trackpads.
Though you've gone ahead and gotten a MacBook Pro already (I got one last year too), you could've done just fine with a plain MacBook (albeit with the RAM maxed. But I always get the maximum installed now.) What you get with the Pro is just a better video card and larger screen; the audio, CPU and bus specs of the MacBook are just fine. I see a lot of people running Live on them.
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Re: New Apple Computers....suggestions.....
Sat, March 15, 2008 - 4:23 PMI have become ultra skeptical of anything m-audio over the last many years. I owned the usb quattro which didn't sound bad but was full of little quirks (this was on my windows machine, btw). A couple of months ago I made an attempt to hook up my roomates firewire 410 to my macbook pro and ended up with a hardware failure message (the equivelant of the windows blue screen). The hardware itself was fine.
I personally own a Motu ultralite for use with my macbook and am very happy with it. But it's expensive so I would,ny recommend it right off the bat. But one thing to be said is that there are only a small handfull of companys that make really descent drivers for mac. Motu, echo, Presonus (and of course super high end RME, Apogee, Metric Halo, etc.) are definately some of the top companys. M-audio, Tc Electronix, Focusrite, etc. really seem to be hit or miss (from what I've heard and read fo course. Havn't personally tried and tested them all).
I really think that Echo is a solid company. And even though I'm stilled pissed off that they discontinued and stop supporting the Echo Gina-20 Pci card that I've owned since 99 I still will fully recommend them. And the Audiofire series is a steal as far as price, stability, and sound quality.
.......... Quote:
"I've seen PCs crash way too many times in live situations for them to be much better than paper weights"
Thats interesting because I've Only seen Mac laptops crash on stage. And on 3 different occasions.
My janky ass hp from like 5 years ago (despite the lack of power) was solid as fuck for playing out Live with. I use a macbook pro now for playing out which is soild in it's own right but live is still a tad bit squirly on it. Pc's CAN be great machines but alot of care has to be put into maintaining them. Unlike mac which is much more plug, play, and forget about it.
Hell, I even saw Sqarepusher live once and he was using a sony vaio with his bass guitar, pedals, midi controllers, all plugged and running off of max ( well, I'm asuming it was max). Solid. Actually that performance was quite goofy...but still solid:) -
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Re: New Apple Computers....suggestions.....
Sat, March 15, 2008 - 6:24 PMyeah ,no probs with pcs...iv'e used both
and have seen a multitude of both used by
others, as far as I knew that whole pc/mac
thing was toast 10 years ago, and the myth
that macs are somehow not problematic
in there own way, that's gotta be a joke...
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Re: New Apple Computers....suggestions.....
Sun, March 16, 2008 - 2:13 AM<Thats interesting because I've Only seen Mac laptops crash on stage. And on 3 different occasions.>
How crazy. I've got a friend who uses Live on his PC and I've been to 2 of his shows where the PC has taken a shit on him mid-set. I've seen other acts with PCs and Macs crash alike - always seem to see more blue screens of death than macbricks though. Computers in general are still a bit touchy for live performance but they're getting closer. I wish they were as dependable as the days when I had an all hardware live set...but that was getting too complicated since I'm not nearly as armed as Ganesha.
I suppose it all depends on how/what you use your computer for. I've got one MacBook that is solely for music and nothing else. It doesn't even touch the internet. I rarely have problems - and the problems I have are usually from my own operator error.
I'll have to look into that Echo interface you mentioned...it looks sick and much easier to carry around for live performances...if I ever produce anything worth playing out again. Or find a place in Alaska that actually wants to hear electronic music that isn't mid-90s rave style. -
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Re: New Apple Computers....suggestions.....
Sun, March 16, 2008 - 10:22 AMyes indeed, either platform
suffers from being utilized
in multi purpose reality,
if it is for live stage, I never,
ever load anything not directly
applied to performance, and format
totally for that purpose... -
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Re: New Apple Computers....suggestions.....
Sun, March 16, 2008 - 12:34 PMyeah, ditto...
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Re: New Apple Computers....suggestions.....
Sun, March 16, 2008 - 9:38 PM<...if I ever produce anything worth playing out again. Or find a place in Alaska that actually wants to hear electronic music that isn't mid-90s rave style. >
I myself love a variety of music. Got any tracks to share? There's always an audience for music!
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Re: New Apple Computers....suggestions.....
Fri, March 14, 2008 - 11:15 AMPersonally, I run a PC laptop, and have zero problems w/ crashes... yet, I built the laptop to custom specs and bought the barebones from the company who makes Mac motherboards, Asus... but, 'nuff about me...
I'll attest to the performance and quality of Echo's line of audio interfaces... personally I own an Echo Indigo DJ... I've used the Audiofire, too... if you've got the dough, go for it!
I've purchased Creative Labs EMU 1616M, which has 'professional studio quality a/d d/a converters'... it's a PC interface, though (PCMCIA/Cardbus).
I agree, that the core soundcard in laptops, even Macs, is lacking in d/a conversion quality... I'd say that they're really just made for little desktop speakers... if you're going to play on a several thousand watt PA, get something w/ quality d/a (digital/analog) converters.
I also attest to M-Audio's 410, which is a reletively solid machine w/ many outputs... so, if some die, you've got more... always get more outputs than you're going to need, unless wieght/space is a concern. -
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Re: New Apple Computers....suggestions.....
Fri, March 14, 2008 - 9:25 PMFor what it is worth, I have actually played out with my G4 Powerbook and only used the computers line out and really, it sounded just fine. When recording and doing some serious sequencing and mixing however, you really want to get an external interface. Also go to the manufacturers website and check compatibility.....I just upgraded to Leopard and (oops!) didn't check compatibility for my Onyx firewire interface: BIG MISTAKE! I am waiting for Mackie or Apple to get together and work it out (should be summer at the latest) and limping along with a 150 dollar Line 6 Gearbox interface as my only input. I also understand that some Presonus and M-audio interfaces are nothing but trouble with Mac's.....Choose wisely, grasshopper!
www.myspace.com/mortal_engines -
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Re: New Apple Computers....suggestions.....
Sat, March 15, 2008 - 10:57 AMfirewire 410's seem fine with
either mac or pc, and chugs
along in any situation I've
been in or out of studio...
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Re: New Apple Computers....suggestions.....
Sun, March 16, 2008 - 9:33 PMMacs will work until you die! If you treat them like the fine things they are, of course. Congrats.
There are a myriad of sound interfaces available that work via USB 2.0 and FireWire.
Macs are very stable, they will not crash, although if they have low ram they might glitch, but you can solve that easily.... you will enjoy composing and performing with your Mac!
Now that Macs come with Leopard (mac osx 10.5, which is a major upgrade), ask your sound equipment dealer if the sound interfaces are leopard compatible. My bro bought a mac with leopard, and an m-audio interface that turned out to be leopard incompatible.
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Re: New Apple Computers....suggestions.....
Tue, March 18, 2008 - 9:44 AMThanks for all the great suggestions, this forum is great! Being a noob is so much easier with all the help. I just got my new laptop today. I'll be switching over my desktop in early April. I'll let you know if I run into any issues vs. my Dell XPS desktop. I'm thinking I'll get the iMac to save the bucks. And I'll likely get that M Audio 410 if it's compatible with Leopard. Love my trigger finger already.
Thanks!
Ian -
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Re: New Apple Computers....suggestions.....
Thu, March 20, 2008 - 12:50 AMhey !check out the mackie pro d2 mixer with the firewire card. It is a soundcard, solid as a rock and also has mixing / routing capabilities for cd's and vinyl. In Ableton, you can even ouput from a stereo out via the firewire cable, to the mixer, add fx, and then route it back into ableton and record it- perfect for recording sets!! It also works on mac or pc as long as you don't do it at the same time. -
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Re: New Apple Computers....suggestions.....
Thu, March 20, 2008 - 2:13 PMhave you had the d.2 long? what type
of work have you done on it so far? -
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Re: New Apple Computers....suggestions.....
Sat, March 22, 2008 - 8:23 AMAbout 9 months- i have mostly used it for deejay applications, and routing performances from my Mac 2.33 duel into the mixer, and then adding effects, instruments, eq'ing through the mixer itself, and then looping it back into Ableton on a record channel if a copy of the show is wanted. I admit i have not fully explored the studio aspects yet,but i could see the possibilities.. doing the above and not even leaving the digital domain, and converting non- digital elements in the process is a good start though.
The main strong points "in my house" are these:
a. Integration of analouge / digital elements and it's flexibility of use
b. it is sturdy- metal construction, adjustable optical faders ( that you can clean "on the fly") if they get dirty.
c. It is a MIXER, and looks like one. I feel that people take you a bit more seriously when they see you bending knobs because they recognize the technology, and in my case, gets me out from behind the laptop and back into the fun . I suppose my next choice would be the Feena USB Controller, but it is hard to find, and does not have the ability to input audio like a traditional mixer.
I got an insanely good deal on mine. My only regret is that it wasn't the 4 channel!!
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Re: New Apple Computers....suggestions.....
Sun, March 23, 2008 - 2:12 PMthanks Zandar, and yes the 4 channel
is on my mind, though I use a Mackie
DFX-12 for alternate and analog input
routing also, it also is built very well
for intense gig usage...
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